Coffee With E

Why Men Stay Silent: Duronn Stern on Healing, Boundaries & Black Male Mental Health

• Erica Rawls

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“The wait is not a punishment. It’s preparation.”

In this powerful and deeply moving episode, Erica sits down with Duronn Stern, licensed mental health therapist, military veteran, and founder of Collaborative Mental Wellness, to talk about trauma, transformation, and the unspoken struggles of men. 

From losing his mother, twin brother, and best friend… to helping young men rewrite their own stories, Duronn’s journey is raw, real, and unforgettable.

You’ll hear:

        •       His darkest moments and how grief led him to therapy

        •       Why many men avoid mental health help and how that’s changing

        •       The social media trap: how 9–14 hours online is killing real connection

        •       Boundaries that save relationships (and lives)

        •       The signs of suicide that are too often missed

        •       How his work with at-risk youth helped launch his purpose

"Men aren’t ‘uncommitted’, they’re scared. And women enable it by ignoring their own boundaries." — Duronn Stern

📍 Learn more or book a session with Duronn:

https://www.collaborativementalwellness.com

🎯 Share this with someone navigating grief, relationships, or emotional burnout.

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🚧 What boundary are you finally setting?

👇 Drop it below. And tag someone who needs to hear this.

#CoffeeWithE #DuronnStern #MensMentalHealth #TherapyForMen #TherapyForBlackMen #MentalHealthAwareness #HealingTrauma #HealingJourney #BoundariesMatter #SetBoundaries #MilitaryToPurpose #EmotionalResilience #RelationshipTalk #HealingConversations #BlackTherapist #TherapyWorks #EricaRawlsTeam



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Erica Rawls:

Okay, ladies, this episode I had the privilege of sitting down with Deron Stern, who is a mental health therapist, and the conversation it went a lot of places, so much so that I almost had to break to grab a tissue because the stories that he shares and the wisdoms that he's actually provides is just absolutely amazing. I'm sure you're going to receive a lot from this episode. So sit down. I don't think this is a driving episode. I think this is a sitting down, taking notes and really just let it sink in. Let me know what you think and I can't wait to see you in the comments. Okay, well, welcome to Ron. Thank you, you're so welcome. We're going to have a chat with me. I appreciate it. Yeah, deron, thank you, you're so welcome. We're going to have a chat with me, I appreciate it.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, no problem.

Erica Rawls:

So I was going to ask how we met, but I don't know, like, how did we meet Most of the guests that we have here, right? Just to give backstory for everyone else, sometimes we'll be looking online and we'll say, hey, yep, they're doing the darn thing. We want to have them on and other people is like having, um, a relationship that either is starting or has been established, right. So and I think you fall somewhere in the middle- Right. Oh right, fall somewhere in the middle. So yeah, cause we met initially at um someone's.

Duronn Stern:

Steve.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, their their cookout or something. Yes, that they were having. Yes, yeah, that's how we met.

Duronn Stern:

Ashley was having a cookout. Yeah, and, um, me and Steve was there. Steve's a therapist as well. Yeah, and I think you were just coming back and forth and you engaged with Steve a little bit and me and you had a small conversation yeah um, and then, later on on, came to be through real estate. Yeah.

Duronn Stern:

Right. The funny thing is, though, is I wanted to help somebody out that was new in the business, so I reached out to them via Facebook. I said hey, listen, there's a property that is on the market. It just came on the market. I don't think it's going to be on the market for a long time. Would you be willing to help me out? And she was like yeah. She was like I'm kind of busy, but I'll give you a call back at 3 pm, and I was like okay, that's fine, but we got to move on it because I don't think it's going to stay on. I know for a fact it's not going to stay on the market long, so she didn't call. Oh.

Duronn Stern:

She didn't call me so I was like, wow, okay. So I was like, all right, let me go to who's the next young realtor that I know, that I see on social media.

Erica Rawls:

You keep going as the young realtor and not calling me no because I wanted to.

Duronn Stern:

You know people were up and coming. I appreciate it.

Duronn Stern:

You know I'm established already. So I was just trying to get somebody some business and the next one I called she responded right away. She was like do you have a pre-approval? I was like, nope, but I can get it. She was like, all right, let me call you right back. She called me back. She said I got, I set up a visit for you, all of that. And later on that day I had the prayer approval and you know it went from there so I was able to get her some business. So to the young realtors they got to be prepared because I was, you know.

Erica Rawls:

There's a message in there.

Duronn Stern:

Yes, you have to be prepared you have to be prepared.

Duronn Stern:

You have to be prepared, you have to be prepared, you have to be prepared. Um, I, I had seen her, um, and it seemed like she was just, she was doing her thing. So I was like, all right, let me just reach out. And you know, she just never called me back. So I was like all right, um, and selling the property, I was just like I'm getting some my experience, like I'm not going through the process. I need to get this property off my hands. Um, I'm just going with some of my experience and you're the first person that I thought of. So, yeah, no problem, sir, thank you, thank you.

Erica Rawls:

And we got your house all sold, settled, yeah, and I wanted to have a conversation with you. And it's funny because my assistant said, well, bother him after we close. I said okay, because I wanted to get you in the books right away. She puts me in my thoughts all the time.

Duronn Stern:

No, that's fine.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah. So, duran Stern, please tell the people who you are so they know that you are well qualified to talk about the topic we're going to be discussing today.

Duronn Stern:

Okay, so I am Duran Stern. I am a bunch of things, so one I work for the Department of Defense Defense Logistics Agency as a family advocacy program manager. I deal with, I do education, prevention, intervention, coordination of services, resources and community resources and I follow cases through case closure. But I work with families in the military that are going through domestic violence and or child abuse.

Erica Rawls:

I did not know that, Daron.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, so I do that. Wow for the.

Erica Rawls:

Department of Defense For the Department of Defense Okay.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, so then, one of the other parts of my job is I do pre-deployment and reintegration services. So when we have military or civilians that are getting deployed in theater around the world, I do a brief for them and their families, and my office can provide supportive services to the family members, their dependents that are back home, so I can provide resources and support to them. And then, when the deployer returns, when they reintegrate or reacclimate back into community, I reach out to families at 30 days, 90 days and 180 days to make sure that they're getting reacclimated back into society, and if they need any help or support with anything then I step in.

Erica Rawls:

So yeah, I mean, that's a whole topic in itself.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, so continuing with the federal government. So I do. We have a daycare center on on the installation, so military or they may be showing signs of a possible disability. I can do observations and assessments on that as well, so it keeps me kind of busy. Also, I am a mental health therapist. I'm the owner and clinical director of Collaborative Mental Wellness. Yeah, thank you.

Erica Rawls:

Isn't it fairly?

Duronn Stern:

new. So I just hit two years in January.

Erica Rawls:

Oh, that's awesome yeah.

Duronn Stern:

I hit two years in January, so it was a long time coming. It was a dream of mine to start my own practice. So it's here and I'm running with it.

Erica Rawls:

So hey, I'm hoping you're enjoying this episode of Coffee with E. I had to take 30 seconds to share with you one of our sponsors for this episode, top Construction. They are premier construction company located in central PA, so if you live in Dauphin, cumberland, lancaster and Lebanon counties, you want to check them out. Not only are they reliable, they are reasonable and they get the job done. Now let's go back to the episode. So are you a small? You a solo therapist? Do you have a team of people with you?

Duronn Stern:

So it was for the US. I started out as a solo. The day I got my clinical license, I passed my exam, I went out to my car. I cried, so I was like it's finally here. I went downtown and I started Collaborative Mental Wellness. That would have been December 22. I opened up doors January 23. I had an office, a single 10 by 12 foot office out of Union Deposit. I was full within the first three weeks. Wow I was full within the first three weeks.

Erica Rawls:

So wait before you go any further. So why were you so emotional when you got your license? Like what caused you to be so emotional?

Duronn Stern:

Because once you have your clinical license you're able to go off on your own. So I was at a private practice and so once you get you. So the process is, you have a bachelor's degree. I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice from Lincoln University and I went to Temple to get my master's degree. I have a bachelor's degree in criminal justice from Lincoln University and I went to Temple to get my master's degree. So I did evening classes, so that was like a three-year process.

Duronn Stern:

So once you get your MSW master's of social work, you have to study for an exam and get a license as a social worker. Once you get your license, then you can start practicing clinical. You have to get 3,000 hours within a minimum of two years so that you can sit for your clinical exam. So I remember the state. So you apply for the state. Once you're cleared with the state, then you apply to take the clinical exam. I think I was cleared like November 25th and when I went to go schedule my exam, the first available date was like no, december 1st. It was like I'm doing it, no study time, I'm doing it. I've been preparing for this moment for a year or so. I went and took the exam and I passed it, and I knew at that time that, like it was ball game for me, I know that's right, yeah.

Duronn Stern:

So I went out in the car and you know that was. It was an emotional moment for me.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, yeah. So that's awesome and anything to do with the fact that you might be one of five males therapists, especially black male therapists, that are out there. There's not too many of you.

Duronn Stern:

No, there's not too many of you. No, there, there's not there, there's not. So, um, I can probably name four offhand steve, steve johnson, cory burton of vince rogers, um, and there are a few others in the area, but, um, as far as own practice, I want to say it's me cory, and I believe vince rogers has his own practice, I'm not sure. So, yeah, but the emotional part, I guess I can go into my story. So the emotional part was I lost my mom when I was 19. And yeah, I lost my mom in July of 2000.

Duronn Stern:

I went to the military in August of 2000. So I was in the military pre 9-11. So I was in the military for 9-11. I was in the military when the war got started in 2003. I was on an aircraft carrier already in the Mediterranean Sea and our ship was the first one to start launching aircrafts to borrow my rack and things like that. And at the same time I got a call that my best friend I got an email actually that my best friend committed suicide back home. So, yeah, so it was being on the ship in the middle of the ocean and him not being my immediate relative, like I couldn't go home or anything like that, so I just had to deal with it right. I did four years in the military, I got out of the military and I enrolled straight into college. I went to Lincoln and I was a year and a half in Lincoln and my twin brother was murdered back here in Harrisburg.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, okay, so I was not expecting all this. So, yeah, I might need food too.

Duronn Stern:

No, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. So, luckily, luckily, I'm good Right. By the grace of god, I'm good, right. So, um, one of my professors, I was going to school to be an actuary right, actuary science. Um, they studied numbers and they put prices on insurance and things like that, and when my twin brother was murdered, it made me, uh, I ended up changing my major to criminal justice and I followed the case throughout.

Erica Rawls:

So your twin brother did? He live in Harrisburg, he lived in Harrisburg. Oh, wow.

Duronn Stern:

It was four days after her 25th birthday. Yeah, so, and that was funny because I grew up out the south side of Harrisburg, hoover Jones, first 18 years of my life, so it was at that time. Growing up in my era was a lot of drug dealing, crack cocaine and all of that, and there was a saying that black men didn't live to be 25. So I remember turning 25 and thinking about that, right, and then four days later I'm woken up out of my sleep at 3 o'clock in the morning. I'm laying in bed and my phone's vibrating. I just happened to roll over and I look at my phone and I have like 50-something missed calls and the last call was my aunt, like two minutes later. I'm like what is my aunt doing, calling me this late? So I call her back. She's like like you need to come to the hospital right now. Like okay, what's going on? She was like you need to come to the hospital, auntie, you calling me out of my sleep telling me I need to come to the hospital.

Duronn Stern:

You gotta tell me what's going on yeah and she was like your brother was killed, yeah. So hopped up. My heart stopped for a quick second. I hopped up. I was like that's my older brother now. She was like no. So I went and woke him up. Same thing with him. We went to the hospital and we got to news. So my senior year at Lincoln University, one of my professors he worked out with assistant director for juvenile probation. So he asked me he was like what do you think about working as a juvenile PO? I was like I would love to do that. I wanted to be an investigator or detective, but I didn't want to be a police officer because I'm not chasing anybody.

Erica Rawls:

You were in college when your brother had passed away.

Duronn Stern:

Yes, actually, I was at home. It was over the winter break, so I was at home. It was the first time that in the military I couldn't. It was the first time I went to sleep at 7 pm and I couldn't tell you when. The last time that happened, right that particular day, I was like I'm going home, I'm going to go to sleep. I was with my friend, we was playing a video game and I was like I'm going home and I'm going to sleep. I'll be asleep by seven o'clock.

Duronn Stern:

And the last time I looked at the clock it was 6.57 and. I was knocked out. Knocked out until I felt my phone vibrating. In the morning. It was 3.06. And when I looked at my phone, the last call was my aunt, at 3.04. I was like why is she calling me this late?

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, so did your brother go to college? Was he home for the course? So?

Duronn Stern:

my brother. He took a different route. He was in the streets. He was in and out of juvenile justice and he went to jail a few times and at this point, the time he was murdered, he was. I think I want to say he had been home, for he came home that August. I was just going back to school for my second year and right after I went back I want to say he came home that week. So yeah, Wow. Yeah, want to say he came home that week, so yeah, wow, yeah.

Erica Rawls:

So. So then, is this has something to do with why you're into the clinical therapist or mental therapist?

Duronn Stern:

I yes. So, um, when I so my professor, he, he was working out with the assistant director for juvenile probation and I guess he was telling him about me and he was like, do you want a job? Like, do you want to be a juvenile PL? I was like sure. He was like, go down there and apply, and you know they're expecting you and all of that. So I go through the process, I interview for the job the assistant director gives me. He was like, all right, this is when we're looking to start. This is when we're looking to start. We just got to do your background and when they did my background, my twin brother's information came up.

Erica Rawls:

Are you identical? No, we were fraternal. Okay, fraternal, but I'm Deron.

Duronn Stern:

He's DeJuan. You know what I mean. Our social security number's closed same birthday. He might have used my name a time or two, I don't know, no-transcript. I went around to all the local police departments, got it squared away, I had them write me letters and all of that and I submitted it back to probation and I didn't think nothing of it. It was probably like a week or two after we had that conversation and then I got a call in November hey, we're hiring for a January class. We like that. You did your research and all of that, so we want to bring you in.

Erica Rawls:

Oh, that's awesome.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, so in the meantime I started working at Target.

Duronn Stern:

Hey, as an executive team leader, I ran asset protection, okay. So I have these stories though. But at Target I was replacing a well-liked person, right, and I remember the store manager. She was fairly new, but me replacing this well-liked person, I guess I had some pretty big shoes to fill, right, and that's fine, perfect, I would have filled the shoes, but I noticed early on that when I would be walking with this guy, the store manager would always walk around the store with us and she would always speak to me, and when I wasn't with him, I could walk right past her and she wouldn't say anything to me. Really.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, she wouldn't say anything. So one day I just walked into her office I said when you get a second, can I have a conversation with you? Right.

Duronn Stern:

She was like sure, come on in. And I came in and I was like I just want to bring something to your attention. I'm not sure that you noticed, but every time I'm walking around with this person, you speak to me and when I'm not, you don't even acknowledge me or look my way. I said I don't have a problem with you doing either one of them, but just if you don't mind, take a side and just stick to it. Why?

Erica Rawls:

was that important for you to impress?

Duronn Stern:

Because I didn't like the fact that she would speak to me and have conversations when I was with him. Yeah. Right, but when I wasn't with him, she didn't say anything to me and I was new to the store. Right, I wasn't with him, she didn't say anything to me and I was new to the store, right, so you're running the store. So I felt like she was setting a bad precedent for being a manager and running the store.

Erica Rawls:

So Dirty Dog Hauling. Thank you so much for your sponsorship. If you're looking for junk removal company, they are the go-to company. Whether you have a small job or a large job and even excavation, you want to check them out. They are reasonable and also timely and effective. Dirty Dog Hauling. Now back to the show.

Duronn Stern:

Shortly after that I was going to probation anyway, so I knew I wasn't going to be there long after and I ended up going to probation. And I want to say about a year later she sent me a message on Facebook Messenger and she apologized to me and she said that that was a big lesson for her, her career and moving forward in her career.

Erica Rawls:

They're affecting another person by their actions until you share it with them, so they don't have an opportunity to change until you say something. So, yeah, good for you for having the courage to say something, yeah thank you, Thank you, yeah, yeah, you're welcome.

Duronn Stern:

So even with that right in therapy, I get that a lot right. People aren't mind readers. People are not mind readers.

Erica Rawls:

People are not mind readers.

Duronn Stern:

They're not mind readers. If I say, tell me what I'm thinking right now, you're probably going to look at me like I'm crazy. Yeah, tell me what I'm feeling. You don't know, right. The only way we know is if we communicate that, right? Some can be verbal, some can be nonverbal. If I get up and I punch a hole in the wall, you'll probably know how I'm feeling based on my actions. But we're not mind readers. So, sometimes you have to make people aware if they're not willing to ask.

Erica Rawls:

So, given that we're in the mental well-being, mental health awareness for men month Right. And June when we record this. So let's talk about that, because I mean, you had a lot of trauma in your life, like how did you, did you get therapy? Did you get therapy? Before we even go any further, did you get there?

Duronn Stern:

So, so no. But my therapy was I would just talk to people. I would talk to strangers, I would talk to my friends, I would talk to my family. I was just talking to people, like I never let things get bottled up Right. So that was my relief. Nobody ever said to me Daron, go get therapy, you need therapy? All right, nobody said that.

Duronn Stern:

So what happened for me? When I was a juvenile probation officer, they asked me to work a pilot program. Pilot program was called Family Solutions. They told me they were going to partner me with a licensed clinical social worker and we were going to pull kids out of placement early. Instead of them doing nine to 12 months in placement, they were going to do four to five months and the therapist was going to go into the home and provide intensive therapy, not just for the kid but for the entire family. And as a PO, this was a big change from what I had seen, because the focus was always on the kid. So now to see this family dynamic, it opened up my eyes to, you know, possibly to my growth.

Duronn Stern:

And there was, there was an older white man. He lived in Westminster, maryland, and he would drive up here every day. I had his contract. He got paid drive time just to come and go, so it was already at a set rate. But we would have these conversations. And he was like Duran, I'm an old white man, I'm driving from Maryland. There's a need for this. There's no reason why you can't be doing this.

Erica Rawls:

There's no, this. There's no reason why you can't be doing this. There's no need. There's a leap. He's the one that presented it to you. There's an opportunity here for you.

Duronn Stern:

So that put a bug in my ear, right. And I remember we sat down and we interviewed. We go to placement, we interview our first kid and he's asking this kid all this stuff about his background, what he did to get there and all of this other stuff, and he doesn't write anything down. And then he says to the kid he says tonight when you go to sleep, a miracle is going to happen. You don't know the miracle happened, you just know that when you wake up things are different in your life. And he said what's different in your life? And little kid looked at me like why is this old white man asking me about America? And I looked at him and I said just answer the question. And he was like I'm not in placement, I'm in school, I got a good job, I'm building a relationship with my mom, I'm trying to establish a relationship with my dad and so forth, and that's it. And the therapist was writing everything that he said down. And.

Duronn Stern:

I'm looking, I'm like, all right, what's going on here? He finished up the interview. He let him know hey, we got to interview your family. If you're fit, we'll let you know. Kid leaves, we bring the next kid in. He asked him the same thing. He asked him all his background stuff about what he did to get to you know this point in placement and all of that he doesn't write anything down. He says to him again tonight, when you go to sleep, a miracle is going to happen. You don't know a miracle will happen. You just know that when you wake up things are different in your life. What's different in your life? And of course, I had the nudging to answer the question because he's looking like what. So I say answer the question.

Duronn Stern:

And he started running off all this stuff. I'm about to graduate, I got a car, me and my mom have a good relationship, I'm applying to colleges and the therapist is writing everything down and the light bulb went off. I said, wow, when the light bulb went off, he seen it and he winked at me. So he knew, I knew at that point. So when the kid left he was like what you got for me? I said you're creating a plan based on what this kid wants, not what probation wants, not what the parent wants, not what anybody else wants. And he said kids are going to be more successful doing the things that they want to do, versus what everybody else is making them do.

Erica Rawls:

Isn't that just human nature? Be more successful doing what you truly want to do, as opposed to what other people want you to do.

Duronn Stern:

Right? Yes, it definitely is. But as a probation officer, we gave conditions of probation. You had to do two book reports, you had to pay fines and costs. So there were certain things that depended on what your charges were. So now he's, so his the things that he wrote out. They became the conditions of probation versus what we wanted.

Erica Rawls:

And you were successful.

Duronn Stern:

Successful, so we ended up pulling nine kids out. Yeah. And it was a six-month pilot. They didn't continue it after six months for some reasons that were out of my control, but all the kids were successful at that point.

Erica Rawls:

Wow, so did you work with young men? I did In that program.

Duronn Stern:

I did so. I was the PO I was assigned when I first started. I was security, so when he was going into the houses he was providing intensive therapy. I was just sitting there and I'm soaking it all up and I'll give you one example. We had a young man that his mom was drinking a lot and she would start acting different and he she would start taking it out on him. So in one of our family sessions it was decided that he would record her while she was intoxicated and we will watch it at the next session. And he recorded her and we went to the next session and she watched herself and she literally started crying. She bought her eyes out and mom stopped drinking behind that, really she stopped drinking.

Duronn Stern:

So you know for me to see it. And he's a clinical social worker. I'm just watching all of this and when they didn't continue to pilot I I was like I have to do this, I have to. Yeah. So it required me to go back to school.

Erica Rawls:

What do you think? Do you think it was her seeing herself in that condition that made her want to stop Sometimes, just seeing yourself?

Duronn Stern:

So it was that and it was more. I want to say it was a lot of that, but it was also. Now she could understand where her son was coming from and actually, you know, pay attention to his, his feelings. So those two combined, she didn't realize that she was the cause for him feeling the way that he was feeling yeah, so I think it's so hard for men to actually have um, or feel comfortable having conversations.

Erica Rawls:

That's for their well-being. Put it that way. I think, it's hard for men to trust.

Duronn Stern:

Why so? We go through a lot, like we go through a lot. We go through a lot, we deal with a lot, whether it's um one, we, we deal with a lot just because of the color of our skin. Right, um, and it could be some of the things that we endured growing up, right, um, I might have got in trouble when I was growing up and it still affected me, and I'm not. I don't know how to navigate. You know those things. Some people are successful. A lot of people aren't successful.

Duronn Stern:

Sometimes some of the things that they've done when they were younger, you get a record. You get felonies. It prevents you from doing a lot of things. It could be relationships right, there's no manual on relationships. It could be parents there's no manual on being a parent. So it could stem from a number of things. And then we're taught that we have to be macho, we're not supposed to cry, and you know um. So it gets to a point where men are either good or we're angry as hell. Right, we're good or we're angry as hell. We weren't allowed to feel those other feelings, so we don't know how to navigate. It always showed up as anger so how could we change? That.

Erica Rawls:

And are you doing anything to change it?

Duronn Stern:

So, yeah, I mean, that was part of the reason why I started my practice, right? Is they come into the office, they sit down, we're having a conversation and they'll say, tell me if I'm crazy and they'll start going into a situation that they're dealing with. Yes, tell me if I'm crazy and they'll literally start. You know they'll start going into the situation and they'll literally start to. You know they'll start to go into the situation and most times they're logical about what they're dealing with, right? It's just that the person that they're dealing with it with isn't logical. They're thinking emotional, right?

Duronn Stern:

So now you're trying to navigate that, like, am I crazy? And then it's. Also, can I go present this to somebody else, right? Or if I do, is it going to make me look like I'm soft or I'm weak or anything like that? So we hold that, we hold that and we continue to hold it right and it creates a precedent, right? So now, every time something like that happens, we continue to endure it and we endure it and we endure it. And because it's a precedent, how do you change a precedent? You set a boundary right, and most men don't set boundaries when it comes to women, to their women. They just don't. But the moment a boundary starts to get set, things start to change and most men don't realize that.

Erica Rawls:

So you're saying, just so I understand so you're saying it's important that men set those boundaries when it comes to women or their partners or their spouses.

Duronn Stern:

It's important that everyone sets boundaries. The problem is we don't communicate right. What does a boundary look like so that when this situation comes up, how do we respond? And if I've been growing up and I'm taught, nobody tells me how to deal with my emotions, how do my emotions come out when that precedent has been set and I continue to deal with it and deal with it and deal with it when I'm talking, when it's time for me to deal with it, it's going to be dealt with in a way that it might not look pretty.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah.

Duronn Stern:

It might not look pretty.

Erica Rawls:

Scary. So then, when it comes to relationships, I know, you know, I talked to a lot of young women and the men this seems like they just like they're either unsettled, they're unsure, they're just, they're just afraid to actually talk or share how they're feeling. So it's hard for them to so-called get in, to show them that hey, yeah, I do care, and I think that something needs to change, like something has to change, because you have a lot of good women out here wanting a good man, but the man doesn't want to.

Erica Rawls:

I guess they're not in the same wavelength, if you will, when it comes to mentally, like mentally, they're just like they're checked out. They're like, well, yeah, no, I don't want this, or no, I don't want to show you my feelings, or no, just they don't want to commit. I mean, there's just so many things that I hear young people are going through. Okay, it's so disheartening.

Erica Rawls:

I had to take two seconds to thank Allstate Insurance for sponsoring this episode. If you're looking for car life or casualty insurance, they're going to be your ultimate insurance company. Thank you, rob Shaw, with Allstate Insurance. Now back to the show. So what do you say?

Duronn Stern:

So here's what I say.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, what do you expect?

Duronn Stern:

Take time to get to know who you're dealing with. Like you have to take time more than just a month.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, yeah, take take time to get to know who you're dealing with, right, because you don't know. Most people create boundaries based on past experiences, right? So what I'm not willing to deal with with this new relationship is because of what I dealt with in the previous relationships. A lot of times we don't know what we want, but we can say what we don't want, right. I don't want an abusive partner. I don't want somebody that's going to yell every time they get upset, right, we can figure out what we don't want, but it's hard to say what I actually want, right, and a lot of times that comes from our previous experiences. Do you want a nice guy? Sure, everybody wants a nice guy, right. But what happens when that guy is not nice? What does that look like? Is he emotionally intelligent? Can he regulate his emotions? Can he have a conversation about his feelings? And when he's doing that, are you shutting him down?

Erica Rawls:

Are you going to bring that back up and use that against him so that he'll never do it again? So I hear a lot of men say I literally just had a conversation with someone that I know and they said I was sharing a story and they said, well, yeah, I don't like to talk about that because I know the next time I have a conversation it's going to automatically come up, like I don't need to hear what I just shared with you in another conversation, so I'd rather not say it at all. They weren't saying it to me. They were just saying you know the story that they were sharing. It does. How did you just share it with you? Know the person? Well, no, because the next time we have a conversation it's going to come back up and I don't want to hear that.

Duronn Stern:

Here's how it happens, that precedent that I was talking about being set. Yeah. It continues to happen, and it happens, and it happens. You have, you have this incident or this situation, you don't do anything about it. It sets a precedent. You have the next one. It sets a precedent Now, when you're ready to talk about it. Depending on what that communication looked like before, all the precedents that were being set they all come up at one time.

Erica Rawls:

So now it ain't just this one issue that we're dealing with it's the last three or four that we were dealing with that were never resolved.

Duronn Stern:

And now so you're saying it's because we don't resolve the previous issue. That's why it comes back up in another conversation. Right, right, and most men want to resolve the issue right and the issue can get resolved or they think it's resolved we think it's resolved or can be resolved, but as a matter of that incident being a fact, it can come back up in the next incident or the third or fourth or fifth incident. Now you have all of these incidents that are fact and are coming up to prove a point.

Erica Rawls:

So what does? What should a male say to their, their female partner when they are okay? How clear can you be Right? I guess it depends on the person, but what is something that men can start doing when it comes to their the female partners or spouses that'll help alleviate that ever from that happening?

Duronn Stern:

Okay so. So there's a few things that can happen, right, but the one is I'm in charge of how I think, how I feel and how I act. I'm also in charge of what I allow to bother me or what affects me, right. So I can get to a point where I'm just like I'm not letting anything affect me, so you can say it all you want, right? Most people can't get to a point where I'm just like I'm not letting anything affect me, so you can say it all you want, right. Most people can't get to that point. I'm at that point now you can say whatever you want about me. I don't. Okay.

Duronn Stern:

All right, but most people can't get to that point. But it's about creating those boundaries. And when you set a boundary. You set a boundary for yourself. What are you willing to tolerate? What's an example of a boundary that you're thinking of? A boundary would be anytime. We have a conversation and your decibels start to raise. I'm going to stop this conversation. I'm going to ask you to turn it down a little bit, because I hear you the same way.

Erica Rawls:

Okay, so just so people understand what decibels mean.

Duronn Stern:

Right.

Erica Rawls:

So you're saying, if we were having a conversation, I started yelling at you, you're going to say, okay, you need to take that down.

Duronn Stern:

Yes, get elevated Yep. All right, listen, I hear you, but I just need you to turn it down just a little bit and we can continue this conversation.

Erica Rawls:

And if you don't, my boundaries is going to tell me I'm like the conversation's over, like we'll end it. We can come back to it at a different time, but for now we're done. Well, just so you know the audience that we have um the community that we're building. They're between um 25 to 35. You know there's people that are younger and older as well okay typically that's like our target um you know audience okay, so just just know that.

Erica Rawls:

So, right there, a lot of people are probably just still dating or they're just freshly married. Like what would be and we're talking to the young women on how they can actually help support their male partners what would be something that you would share with them? Like, hey, this is what you should do. Like I like the boundary Right. So, yeah, okay, so share boundaries with each other. Look, I don't like when you do this right and when it comes to that, we're going to stop. Like what would be another thing that you would suggest?

Duronn Stern:

okay. So I I think in working with couples and and families and you know, I I think the most successful thing that people do that have good marriages or great marriages is they can communicate good, bad, ugly and different. You do something I don't like, I can tell you about it, right, you're not taking it as an attack. You're listening to me talk about my feelings, right, and vice versa. If I'm doing something that you don't like, you can communicate that with me and we can continue to carry on without it stopping the show, right, because we get into arguments and then you go a day or two we're not speaking, a week with not speaking, and then there's that time where you got to come together. So I think it's being able to effectively communicate Right, and you make it sound like it's so easy.

Duronn Stern:

It can be easy. Easy is subjective, hard is subjective, right, it's subjective. What is easy, like I feel, like I don't have hard conversations. There's no hard conversation for me.

Erica Rawls:

Right, you make it so simple.

Duronn Stern:

But that's what I'm saying, though. Like it can be simple, right, there's no hard conversation when I'm going to. Like it can be simple, right, there's no hard conversation when I'm get all worked up and then I'm gonna think of emotions that make it hard right you start getting all emotional. That's when the conversations or anything becomes hard right and that's fair right, but think about those emotions. When's the last time that you had an issue that you didn't accomplish, that you didn't resolve?

Erica Rawls:

I had to take two seconds to interrupt this episode. I would like to thank one of our most recent guests, attorney Jenny Chavis, for sponsoring this show. Chavis Law Firm is an elite law firm in central Pennsylvania that helps with estate planning as well as understanding what type of business entity you should enter into when starting your business. If you're looking for a great attorney that understands estate planning as well as business entity how to start the right way, you want to check out Attorney Chavis Chavis Law Firm. Now back to the show. When's the last time that I had an issue that I did not resolve Right?

Duronn Stern:

you don't even gotta do that. Most people resolve their issues, whether it's they think it's hard.

Erica Rawls:

So if the issue is with, if it just has to do with you, right there's some issues that can't be resolved. If it takes, if it's a party like there's more than one person, it's someone outside of yourself, right, that needs to um be open to it okay in order for the issue to be resolved. Am I right?

Duronn Stern:

I said what. What does it take for relationships to like?

Erica Rawls:

You said communicate, that's it Right.

Duronn Stern:

Okay, so we can. At the end of the day, the least we can do is agree to disagree.

Erica Rawls:

And that's resolving it.

Duronn Stern:

Is it? Sometimes it can be. Sometimes it can be. Okay. Sometimes it might not, sometimes like we can agree to disagree, but I'm never going to speak to you again, right? Is it resolved, sure?

Erica Rawls:

is that resolved it.

Duronn Stern:

Possibly it depends oh, wow it can be this is controversy.

Erica Rawls:

I'm gonna have to um listen in the comments for this one.

Duronn Stern:

No, no, I I don't think so though you don't think so no, because it could be like there are situations where things happen and there's no coming back and the person will listen to some I apologize and they'll say thank you for your apology.

Erica Rawls:

But there's no coming back.

Duronn Stern:

There's no coming back from that, that's fair.

Erica Rawls:

I would agree with that. Yeah, when you put it that way, I do agree with that. Thank you for the, you know, for seeing me, yep, and yet we're done.

Duronn Stern:

Yep, seeing me, yep, and yet we're done. Yep, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Okay, so I don't got no hard feelings. I don't know. Ill will Right. When I see you, I'll probably speak. It's not going to be a huge conversation, but that's it.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, that's it. So what do you think is the biggest thing that's going on right now with young men?

Duronn Stern:

In general, social media. It's social media In general. It's social media. It's social media, one of the things I do. First session tell people pull your phone out, the iPhone, go to settings, go to screen time. The Android, pull your phone out, go to settings. It's another step. Then you get to screen time and the average person that comes to see me, I'm saying 19 to 30. I probably can go high school, but 19 to 30 is 9 to 14 hours on social media, daily, daily.

Erica Rawls:

And there's only 24 hours in a day.

Duronn Stern:

Right. So if you add 8 hours of sleep and you add 8 hours of work with 9, what does that mean? Yeah, you're not getting any sleep Either you're not getting any sleep or you're really being antisocial.

Erica Rawls:

That's fair.

Duronn Stern:

Right, you walk in a room. It's a bunch of teens. What are they doing?

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, they're on their phone, they're all on social media, right, they're all on their phone. So social media really ain't that social. And then when you get on social media, you don't typically see somebody's worse. If you go look at you, if you pull your phone out right now and you go look at the last picture that you posted, right, and you go through your camera log see how many pictures you took to post that one particular picture and why do you post that one particular picture? Because you think it's your best. So everybody, when they post, they think they're, they think they're putting their best out there, right.

Erica Rawls:

You need to put a pin in that. So I need for everyone to do the exercise. So everyone pull out your phone and then look at your last post. If it happens to be a static picture or video. Look at your last post, Then go back to your photo log. How many times did you re-record or re-take that picture before you actually posted it? That's what he's referring to.

Duronn Stern:

Right, that's exactly it, and typically I'll ask them to do it right in front of me and I'll never want to see their like you don't got to show me.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, just tell me, and the reason why you brought that is because a lot of people just want to show their best selves, which is, you know, not necessarily their true selves or how they're really feeling in that moment, right? So just imagine, if we actually change that paradigm, which I honestly can say that I am like the older that I'm getting, you know, I'll just like, just just whatever. Just forget it, right, right, because social media is not reality and that's what people are craving. They're craving that authenticity. They talk about it, but it's still not authentic on that social media.

Duronn Stern:

Not at all. And and the the other part, for for the age group that you the demographic that you talk about is, it gives immediate access. It's immediate gratification for me. I was a probation officer in 2007. I worked with at risk you for almost 10 to 12 years before I even went back to get my master's degree, when I started paying attention to the business side of my field. A master's degree meant $18 to $20 an hour versus billing insurance. A clinical license is billing insurance, so I put in the work. Most people don't see you put in all that work. Right, but for people in that demographic, it's I want it, I want it now, and if I can't get it, I'm going somewhere else. Same way with dating right, you need somebody. Nowadays they don't even exchange phone numbers. What's your instagram? What's your snapchat?

Duronn Stern:

that's right yeah, like what's your snapchat or your instagram? So they don't even exchange phone numbers. So, um, and you have access to so many different people. So, um, short attention span. We communicate for a day or two. We send messages Meantime. I'd send somebody else a message. They're providing more feedback and more timely feedback, more engaging. So the first person is like all right, they're taking too long, now they're done.

Erica Rawls:

And that's a continuous cycle. Yeah, so I believe that's why it's hard to find someone and stay with them because they get one. They get bored Right. Because they keep seeing all the highlight reels of everyone else's relationship on social media, right. So when they're sitting there, maybe watching football or just not doing anything, they're thinking, well, why can't we be doing fun, right?

Duronn Stern:

Yeah.

Erica Rawls:

In all actuality. They posted that picture from three months ago and they posted it from their couch, correct, looking at each other as well correct yeah and I think people need to understand that there's a more. You have more downtime. You do have the fun, you know the fun times right, and there's like I think they're just out of touch with reality.

Duronn Stern:

I agree with that.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, I agree with her so.

Duronn Stern:

When you see people having fun all day long for hours at a time, you're thinking what am I doing wrong?

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, what am I doing?

Duronn Stern:

Are you?

Erica Rawls:

trying to live up to something that's not real, right, but here's the thing. So me just thinking of you know, the 25 year old woman. So what does a 25 year old woman have to do in order to get their attention of you know a person that they think would be like, oh my gosh, I would love to get to know them better From a male's perspective. You have conversations with them, sitting down in the chair and talk about man. She's always doing this, this and this and this and this. Right, but it's important for them because they want to have those meaningful relationships. Right, but it's important for them because they want to have those meaningful relationships, but the men are afraid to commit because what they see on social media and I know I'm general, older and it's just it's unfortunate for you know the good women that are ready to settle down these men just want to just keep well you know, doing what they do.

Duronn Stern:

What is that though?

Erica Rawls:

Being unsettled.

Duronn Stern:

But that's what I'm saying so, so, and being on, what are you being uncommitted to right?

Erica Rawls:

To a relationship.

Duronn Stern:

To a relationship, right? And how do you become? Does this female have boundaries? Right? And saying this is what I'm going to tolerate, this is what I'm going to accept, this is not what I'm going to accept? And is that communicated? Not only is it communicated, are you enforcing it, because I hear all the time red flag, this red flag, that I seen it. I overlooked it, right? Well, if that's a boundary for you and you're actually paying attention to it, and you see it and you overlook it, now you're wondering why he's not going to commit to you.

Erica Rawls:

Hey, are you looking to move and you just don't know what to do with all your stuff or where to start with packing? Call Movers for Me. They are the elite moving company. They will help you get organized and packed and be efficient, streamline the whole process. Located in central Pennsylvania Movers for Me. Now back to the show. Y'all. We're getting a male therapist perspective here. Are you listening?

Duronn Stern:

You went against your own boundary, right, you went against your own boundary, and that's the precedent that I talk about getting set. We keep creating these precedents that we don't like, right? And then, all of a sudden, he's been doing all of these things and now you're serious about it. But he's been doing it all of this time, and now it's a year and a half, two years in, and he still won't commit to you.

Erica Rawls:

then your boundaries in play because you allowed it from day one you let the precedent get set so the lesson and the moral of this story is set your boundaries early, yep right and make them clear clear yep, and then they are just not suggestions, they're literally standards.

Duronn Stern:

That's the part.

Erica Rawls:

They don't need it.

Duronn Stern:

Right, they're out, it's out, that's out. That's a part of communication, though. Right, when you meet somebody, you're getting to know them and you talk about the things that you like and the things that you don't like, and you know y'all coming together and things like that. Are y'all having those conversations continuously? Right, about boundaries? Can you talk about everything? Do you notice early on that when you have an issue, you go to address it with him and he shuts down right, is that a real flat? Are you gonna say, oh, I can change that or I'm gonna come back to it? And then you go back to it and he shuts down again, right, and you continue to deal with it and you continue to deal with it. Next thing you know, all the time the wind pass and you're like why am I? Why like?

Duronn Stern:

yeah why like how did I end up in this situation? You ended up in this situation because you overlooked your own boundaries.

Erica Rawls:

That's good.

Duronn Stern:

You overlooked your own boundaries.

Speaker 3:

You're supposed to be talking about men. You're up here helping the ladies.

Duronn Stern:

Oh no, it's the same, though it is the same. It's definitely the same For men. I'll tell you this Most men, when they come see me, we don't have, I would say, probably no more than eight sessions, and I can see women for six months to a year, for real, like six months to a year.

Erica Rawls:

So why is that? Because I think Not too much on us now. We like to talk it out.

Duronn Stern:

No, you do, which is great, but I think men are. I think we're logical.

Erica Rawls:

We're more logical than women. I mean yeah.

Duronn Stern:

And women act on emotion, right so think of so let me give you an example right so a guy, right the same situation. We're talking about how a woman she overlooks her boundaries right. At what point is she ready to move on at? What point is she ready? To move on. At what point is she ready to move on?

Erica Rawls:

That's a question no one she can answer.

Duronn Stern:

Right.

Erica Rawls:

How much are you willing to take over before you're ready to?

Duronn Stern:

leave. It typically becomes an emotional thing, that same man that's not holding up his end of the bargain. He's not emotional about it, he's logical. If I can get this and I don't have to be committed, why am I going to commit? Why am I going to commit? Right, and she's not holding up her end with these boundaries that she done told me about, like I'm literally breaking these boundaries as we talking and she's not even saying anything, even though I know she don't like it. She's not saying nothing. She's not and she waits you gotta mean what you say, right?

Duronn Stern:

and and it becomes an emotional thing for him yeah it becomes emotional when we're just like all right, and I think that's why, when most men, when they come see me, they, um, they understand what they're dealing with and they typically make changes faster, right? Um, most men that have we. If we're feeling something that we don't like, we want to be restored to normal as soon as possible. Right, my girlfriend left me Like I don't like this feeling. I want to be restored, like what does that look like? Right, what do I need to do to get that? And that's something I can't answer, right, because I'm not in charge of your feelings. You are. What would it look like on your end? And it's easier for them to process that, in my opinion, in what I see.

Duronn Stern:

It's easier for them to process that and go through the motions. So most times, women, they've held on to it a lot longer. Times, women, um, they've held on to it a lot longer. Right, and it's that emotional balance of I. What am I giving up? Am I giving up? He's somewhat a good man, he's a great man. I'm tolerating this stuff. What, like? What am I actually going to lose? Do I want to start this process over? So I'll continue to deal with it. That's all emotional stuff. It's all emotional. So when men get emotional, we try to restore that back as quick as possible. Yeah.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah.

Erica Rawls:

So you're saying the fear of loss for the women tend to be bigger than for the men. They're just like, okay, well.

Duronn Stern:

The fear of most things. Yes, of the fear of most things, yes, the fear of most things, because at the end of the day, it's like all I got is me anyway. So if I start talking to myself, you know, or you know, put myself in that it's like I got my back against the wall. What am I going to? Do all right. So what does it take for me to get back to normal?

Duronn Stern:

right and you have them, and then you have the ones that, um, because here's how it happens. So then she cuts him and then all of a sudden, he's upset. So what does he do? His feelings are all out of whack because he can't like the boundaries up now, right? So now he's calling her, he's doing all the things right he's doing all the things he should have been doing.

Erica Rawls:

Yeah, men have a fear of being alone too.

Duronn Stern:

Yeah, he's doing all the things that he should have been doing in the beginning and you know it's wild. It can be wild.

Erica Rawls:

So, before we wrap it up, let's talk about men and their mental health when it comes to how they put on this brave face every day and the next thing you know, we hear that they they commit suicide. Okay, like, what are some of the things that we should be seeing in our men to know that, okay, they're not in a good, okay, place?

Duronn Stern:

Okay, oh, that's a great question, that that is a great question. Um, so, typically, um, they'll start giving things away that really really matter to them okay right, it's like I don't want this anymore.

Duronn Stern:

Um, sometimes it could be financial. Um, they've been doing really, really well and they lost everything. Um, it could be. It could be a breakup. It can be any number of things. Sometimes they talk about it, they start talking about the, the idea of death, right, and um, even for my, for my best friend, like when I was able to communicate with people that were close and around, there was conversations that he was having with people that was overlooked because they was like, nah, he would never do that. Nah, he would never do. He's not the type of person that would do that. Like, even when I found out I was like suicide. I don't think he committed suicide. I don't think he was successful with suicide, like, I just don't and he was, he was um, and I know for the people that knew and the people that was having conversations with him and they didn't do anything, it probably still affects them to this day.

Erica Rawls:

Wow.

Duronn Stern:

It probably affects them to this day.

Erica Rawls:

Hey, I need to take two seconds to interrupt this wonderful show that you're watching. I run a real estate business and the way we fund this podcast is through that business, the Erica Ross team. I would love it if you would just give us one opportunity to service your real estate needs, whether you are in central PA or around the entire world. Think of us first so we can help you. Now back to the show. So giving away things talking about it big financial loss, financial loss. Breakups. Yep, yeah, dramatic breakups Okay.

Duronn Stern:

One of the biggest is giving away things like giving away your prized possessions.

Erica Rawls:

Depression, too Seeing changes in behavior and people's mood Depression is a big one that I get, so people normally tell you before they actually do. It is what you're saying.

Duronn Stern:

They're signs. They will allude to people that's close to them, and if somebody alludes to you and you don't feel comfortable, take them to get help. Take them to get help. Don't leave them by themselves. Take them to somebody to get help.

Erica Rawls:

I was going to ask you so what do you do when you see those signs?

Duronn Stern:

We have there's crisis here in Harrisburg they just opened up connections. Down on Cameron Street there's emergency rooms. Just don't leave them by themselves.

Erica Rawls:

If you don't feel comfortable, get an adult, get somebody that you know can stay with them and guide them and isn't afraid to you know, walk them through that process you know, walking through that, that process, and I think I'd be more I I think for me I'm willing to take that risk and have them mad at me because I assumed something that wasn't right and find out later that I was right and they did take their life Right. So I know there's some people that may need your help, right? Um, sometimes they prefer females, other times they prefer males. So how can someone get in contact with you? Okay.

Erica Rawls:

What type of therapy do you do?

Duronn Stern:

Okay, so contact is a few ways. I have a website, wwwcollaborativementalwellnesscom. You can go straight to the website and you can schedule a free 15 minute video consultation with any one of the therapists at the practice. We have a youth and adolescent therapist. We have a therapist that covers youth and all the way up to adults, and then we have a bilingual therapist. She speaks English and Spanish and she covers youth all the way up to adult as well. So the easiest way is to go to the website to get services. You'll see our schedules, our availability. You can click right in and just follow the prompts and you can get services.

Duronn Stern:

Another way Psychology Today. Psychology Today is you can refine a search for a specific therapist. What type of therapist are you looking for? Are you looking for black, white, male, female? Are you looking for HBT, HBGTQ, whatever? There are so many different options that you can pick on psychology today to narrow it down to your preference. You can do it by area as well. Google you, Google Duran At this point. I'm coming up on various web pages now and they'll link you to my website. Okay, Wonderful.

Erica Rawls:

Well, it's a pleasure having you, thank you. Thank you, it was a pleasure having you.

Duronn Stern:

Thank you. Thank you, it was a pleasure being here. Thank you.

Erica Rawls:

If you or anyone that you know is thinking about committing suicide end of your life, call this 1-800 hotline number below and remember you do matter.

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